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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1245
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1245
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 02:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you. Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll. Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that. So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 02:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:The Apostle wrote:And people wonder why so many are leaving 0.0. I know I did because there was and remains NO counter. I still think you're Riverini but if you aren't then admitting that you got run out of nullsec by people who are afk is p funny. lolz. Yep. I'm Riverini. There, ya found me out... That's why I hate Goons and Welpcats so much. But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing. I can make more in highsec doing L4's or buzzing around WH's/lowsec looking for loose change. You can make more doing Incursions than you can doing L4s. You can make more owning a Tech moon than you can with Incursions. You can make more with marketeering than you can with a Tech moon. You can make more with a scam than you can with marketeering. You can make more with RMT than with most scams. You can make more with GM powers than you can with RMT. You can make more as a Dev than you can with GM powers. You can make more as the CEO of CCP hf than you can as a Dev. Where does the buck stop? You seem bitter overall that things aren't going exactly the way you'd like them. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 02:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:The Apostle wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you. Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll. Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that. Look up. See that thing flying above your head? That was the point of Lyris' post. Sorry. I get so used to nobody being clever 'round here that I miss it when it happens. I am continually amazed with how clever the EVE public is. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 03:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The Apostle wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:The proposition of a solution implies a problem. There exists no problem with AFK cloakers. AFK cloakers by definition are AFK and cannot hurt you. Should I respond to this? Should I? Yep. You're a poor troll. Only time you know he is NOT AFK is when he drops a cyno on your ass. Until that moment, all you can assume is that he will. But you already know that. So you admit the problem is not that he is AFK cloaking, but that he might at any time attack you. How exactly is this different from being in a wormhole, or being in high-security space right before a suicide gank is perpetrated against you? In fact, how is it any different from being in nullsec with a local that's all blue, right prior to being the victim of an awox attack? Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature. That's a fair point and you're right - and nor should we be safe (with some exceptions in my view but I won't go there in this thread). But in all of the examples above, player needs to be active and there is as much risk to the agressor as there is to the agressee. Except maybe in the case of a WH but he can't cyno in a fleet against you either. They all have to be there - as a fleet to pull off the kill. As for highseccers, if a DekCo cowboy (who should be -10 to all ice miners by now) was in system and you kept mining, more fool he. He may have a good tank and decide you are no threat. If he sees 10 reds come in - he leaves. No such option with cyno fleet. An AFK cloaky has no risk, no counter and is as effective as sending in a 50 man red fleet. And he's in bed, fast asleep doing it. You know that the AFK cloaker is there; this alerts you to the possibility of risk. You can ignore that risk, or you can go elsewhere. You are actually in a much more advantageous position compared to being a random guy in highsec whom might find himself suddenly under attack by a couple of 10 Hour Hero characters (10-hour old dudes in destroyers), or someone in nullsec suddenly under attack by an awox.
|

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 03:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Narffy wrote:Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk. No it won't.
If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1346
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 06:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:And a 10 hour destro alt cannot kill a half decent tank. Needs many more and local is a dead giveaway to a half decent player.  I don't see how this constitutes a contradiction. A half-decent player isn't going to fall victim to any of the things I've thus far mentioned because a half-decent player realizes that there are much better methods for acquiring space gold than grinding PVE or shooting rocks in space. It is much more likely that the individuals doing those activities are bots, or new or incompetent players. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1346
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 06:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Seatox wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Narffy wrote:Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk. No it won't. If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing. And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday. At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE. Best drops are paired. Both on target, one drops cyno, other points. Under 10 seconds to a good team. You virtually have to be mashing warp before the decloak even happens. I am not sure at this point whether you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1346
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 06:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Seatox wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Narffy wrote:Don't allow ships to fit both a cyno and a cloak at the same time. That'll stop the cap ship drops and the cloaky can continue to have fun being afk. No it won't. If I am going to go through the trouble to park a cloaking alt in your system, then it's not that much trouble to park a second, logged-off character in system that has a cyno fit. All this change would accomplish is to delay the hotdrop by a few seconds and to dissuade those whom are not very dedicated to what they are doing. And it takes a finite amount of time for a hot-drop to happen anyway. The titan pilot/supercap fleet/Blackops has to select the bridge to/jump to menu option, hit the relevant item, then if it's a bridging the ships in the fleet have to use the bridge - then they all have to load grid. Really, there's enough time for a properly paranoid victim of a drop to figure out what's happening. They might not be able to do anything about it if their ship is fat and slow, or they're a dumb bot (serves them right if they are), but a cyno != a doomsday. At least, not since they took that stupid feature out years before I started playing EvE. This is pretty much congruent with my point, so I am going to go ahead and commandeer this post and plant my flag on it. AFK cloakers and the thread of either a hotdrop or a log-in trap are the worries of a particular type of individual. This individual is either a bot or someone who both sees the presence of the neutral/hostile in local and then elects to ignore its presence, ignore the directional scanner, remain in the same system, and be somewhere in space for an extended period with a ship that makes an inviting target. I am honestly not sure which category, bot or idiot, I'd prefer to be called were I the victim of an AFK cloaker, log-in trap or hotdrop. I'd probably claim that I was botting, just to save face. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1348
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 06:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
L Salander wrote:The best solution is just ignore the cloaky alts +1 would like again |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1714
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:Rhinanna wrote:Kitty McKitty wrote:Problem: Me and my buddies are unwilling to defend our operations in lawless space because it impedes on our profit margins.
Solution: Nerf some other doods. Way to misquote! Well done for trying to build a strawman. The problem isn't that it makes it less profitable or hits profit margins, the problem is that it makes null LESS profitable than hi-sec. Do you really think that is right? The secondary problem is that it gives a very cheap and risk-free way of seriously fecking up your enemy's economics. This heavily breaks the risk vs reward that EvE is based around. More risk = More reward, except in the case of AFK cloaking. Now please try addressing the real problems and see if you can come up with an actual answer. You dont mine in null sec for PROFIT, you mine there for resources, and it's more convenient than relying on logistics to bring in resources from high sec. If you are unable to deal with a few enemy ships in system and cannot go next door or otherwise deal with the problem then you need to start bringing in resources from elsewhere. You may not like this but its the truth. You don't mineGÇöin null sec or otherwiseGÇöfor PROFIT or resources. You mine because you don't realize that there are more efficient or more lucrative alternatives. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1714
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 18:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Your avatar has a long neck. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1841
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. If someone in your system is sitting in a recon, cloaked, all you can say for certain is that he could drop an undefined number of people onto you at damn near any time he pleases, and you would get absolutely no warning of it until it's too late to react. Your warning is that he is in local. All you have to do to avoid an AFK cloaker is move to a different system. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1841
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Cambarus wrote:The idea that there is no problem with afk cloaking as it is, is laughable. Only for really, really dumb people. This is a significant portion of every human population. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2228
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 21:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey guys, we get it. We understand that when you say "AFK Cloaker," you are not literally referring to someone whom is AFK. You are referring to the ability of someone to sit in local, AFK or otherwise, for prolonged periods of time while cloaked and then suddenly tackle you and bring in friends to kill you. What we keep saying to you is that there is a very simple way for you to avoid this: go to another system to do your PVE activities when you see a neutral or hostile alt in local. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2230
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 21:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Every time you complain about an AFK cloaker making it impossible for you to do whatever it is you want to do, you are admitting that someone else is controlling your game. I would not be so proud and loud in admitting that. On the other hand, I am an odd fellow who enjoys shemales, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2234
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 23:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
I love this thread so much. I can't wait 'til my newest stealth bomber alt is done cooking. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2235
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 23:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
One would be surprised how easy it is to set up a disposable starbase in a hostile system and sit, in a non-cloaking ship, inside the starbase shields with impunity. Takes people weeks to realize that you're the Caldari Shuttle or Iteron Mark III on d-scan at some random moon, rather than some nefarious recon pilot. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2235
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 23:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:I love this thread so much. I can't wait 'til my newest stealth bomber alt is done cooking. One of the reasons we post as alts. If you knew who my main was I would more than expect to "Gain" you or another AFK cloaker in our system as retribution. That is why posting as an alt or main has nothing to do with it. A good idea to deal with this issue is a good idea.  see, I don't have that fear if you wan't to come afk blueball yourself to death down in syndicate I'll be more than happy to laugh at you in local This guy has the right attitude, the guy he quoted is just a dishonourable space coward. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2254
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 00:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: tbh, continuing to rat with neut loose in system is the very reason hotdrops are effective. You WILL be a cheap kill, and soon.
So don't do it then! |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2254
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 00:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective. Did this actually happen or are you just saying that? Because if that literally happened then it's hilarious. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2339
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
How many months or years has this thread or ones like it been going and accomplishing nothing? |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2339
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:All i've seen in this thread are ratters scared of the contacts in local, and the "pvpers" who think its impossible to hide without a cloaking device. Both pathetic. You didn't notice those of us who are saying that this isn't an issue? |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2350
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:You're trying to turn null, and as a side effect wormholes, into warm, cuddly safe playgrounds and forgetting that these systems are meant to be inherently dangerous. Except for cloaked ships? Interesting use of evasive maneuvers. Belay that phaser order, fire photon torpedoes! |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2350
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:All i've seen in this thread are ratters scared of the contacts in local, and the "pvpers" who think its impossible to hide without a cloaking device. Both pathetic. You didn't notice those of us who are saying that this isn't an issue? So those would have no problem with cloaking detection mechanics, however hard and troublesome they might be, with or without local? If so i apologize to those, because you stand in the same position as i do. Yeah, I don't care about this issue at all. I mean, I care enough to post in a thread about it but that's mostly for the entertainment value of watching people talk themselves in circles of cognitive dissonance. Whatever change that does or does not happen, competent people will adapt and incompetent people will whine on the forums. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2351
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:You're trying to turn null, and as a side effect wormholes, into warm, cuddly safe playgrounds and forgetting that these systems are meant to be inherently dangerous. Except for cloaked ships? Interesting use of evasive maneuvers. Belay that phaser order, fire photon torpedoes! Plasma seeking torpedoes  Target that explosion and fire! |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2358
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 19:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:All i've seen in this thread are ratters scared of the contacts in local, and the "pvpers" who think its impossible to hide without a cloaking device. Both pathetic. You didn't notice those of us who are saying that this isn't an issue? So those would have no problem with cloaking detection mechanics, however hard and troublesome they might be, with or without local? If so i apologize to those, because you stand in the same position as i do. Yeah, I don't care about this issue at all. I mean, I care enough to post in a thread about it but that's mostly for the entertainment value of watching people talk themselves in circles of cognitive dissonance. Whatever change that does or does not happen, competent people will adapt and incompetent people will whine on the forums. Wow impressive use of fancy words just to say "I don't give a ****" Linguistic skills paying those bills! Was it "cognitive dissonance" that struck you as fancy?  |
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